Can glass be mixed with tritium


Leave the archive and display this page in the standard design: Tritium also turns yellow in the vault?



Hello

when tritium has started to turn yellow, it usually comes from the sea drift, right?
if i keep the watch in the safe can i stop aging (yellowing)?

imho not, because tritium disintegrates one way or another and the discoloration is likely to be related to the process. Perhaps our forum chemists are 100% in the know

I also believe that tritium changes color as it decays.

Other manufacturers (e.g. IWC) also have T-exchange sheets. I ordered a hand set for my PD from IWC. The luminous material is already yellowish. I'm not even assuming that the parts will be stored in light.

Even at the same age, there can be significant differences in the discoloration ... As far as I know, this is mainly due to (air) moisture ... a dry environment or regular maintenance of the watch with regard to water resistance (seals, glass) should be here be advantageous ...

Perhaps just to make it more precise - I think the illuminant ages, which largely consists of a zinc compound that is stimulated to glow by the enclosed tritium. But I'm not an expert (hello Andreas), I would be happy to have me corrected.

Regards, Jochen

Hello everybody,

a counter question:

How does Superluminova develop in old age? What will the future vintage models look like? Is the patina of the luminous material also yellowish or in which direction does Superluminova tend when it ages?

Greetings Thorsten

Original from Troublemaker
How does Superluminova develop in old age? What will the future vintage models look like? Is the patina of the luminous material also yellowish or in which direction does Superluminova tend when it ages?

What I would like to know is what new tritium looks like. So without discoloration. Who has a photo for me?

And how do you let, for example, pointers "align". I mean, how are new SL pointers adapted to an old T-blade?

I once had a Glashütte watch and after a year the tritium was yellow .....
Was converted ... to white tritium .... =): D

Assume that if it's exposed to the sun this process goes faster! It takes a little longer to decay in the dark!

Original from Troublemaker
Hello everybody,

a counter question:

How does Superluminova develop in old age? What will the future vintage models look like? Is the patina of the luminous material also yellowish or in which direction does Superluminova tend when it ages?

Greetings Thorsten

It will probably be a few more years before this question is clearly answered ...

can none of our chemically versed members shine a little light into the darkness and shine our spiritual tritium?

marc

Yes, tritium turns yellow in the safe too!

The radioactive degradation process is irreversible, always takes place and is independent of sunlight (therefore it always glows). At some point the tritium has broken down radioactively and has turned yellow.

On the other hand, the glow from Superluminova is ideally reversible. External light is absorbed and given off again with a slightly longer wavelength, i.e. over several hours. This process can take place as often as required and does not lead to discoloration of the SL. Future vintage SL sheets will therefore also be white in color.

I recently posted more information about SL in a thread ...

greetings from
Weevils

Thank you, weevil! :Well:

Thanks a million for the enlightening words! :Well:

and unfortunately the bad news !!! ; (

but which still does not explain why Tritium has the entire color palette from Victorian white to yellow entrance sign ...

because then 2 of the same age ZB would actually have to show the same color ????

chemistry in the 11th rejected
marc =)

Tritium is not "pure" on the dial, but bound to a carrier material, I think the color that is created when it decays is not insignificantly dependent on the composition of this carrier material. As with all products, this is probably slightly different depending on the lot, which would explain a different yellowing.

Original by Greg
Tritium is not "pure" on the dial, but bound to a carrier material, I think the color that is created when it decays is not insignificantly dependent on the composition of this carrier material. As with all products, this is probably slightly different depending on the lot, which would explain different yellowing.

I stick to the fact that the (air) humidity is a decisive factor here;)

Doesn't bite at all with my execution, it is rarely just a factor that causes anything;)

As Marc already indicated, I am also amazed why the leaves in all their shades of yellow can be admired.

I also have two watches where the colors are really very different.

I hope that with good maintenance the color will remain stable when stored in the dark.

Gr,
Istvan

The "yellowing process" is also accelerated by UV light in the so-called tritium leaves or slowed down if they are stored in the safe for years (see my 16750)!

"Tritium" in no way means that pure tritium is applied as a light weight to the hand and pointer. The yellowing effect is also or mainly due to the "carrier material"!

Greeting

tester

Original by newharry

Original by Greg
Tritium is not "pure" on the dial, but tied to a carrier material, I think the color that arises when it decays is not insignificantly dependent on the composition of this carrier material. As with all products, this is probably slightly different depending on the lot, which would explain different yellowing.
I stick to the fact that the (air) humidity is a decisive factor here;)

Original by Greg
Doesn't bite at all with my execution, it is rarely just a factor that causes anything;)

Probably was ... =)



Original from examiner
The "yellowing process" is also accelerated by UV light in the so-called tritium leaves or slowed down if they are stored in the safe for years (see my 16750)!

"Tritium" does not mean that pure tritium is applied as a light weight to the hand and the pointer. The yellowing effect is also or mainly due to the "carrier material"!

Greeting

tester

Can you prove that in a little more detail ... the argument can just as well be that the (air) humidity in a safe is usually lower than when it is used "in the wild" ... and the influence of UV -Radiation? With other materials it often causes bleaching ...: rolleyes:

So the influencing parameters for the tritium luminous masses should indeed be complex and not monocausal.

But I think I have to clarify the whole thing a little more to avoid misunderstandings:

In fact, the so-called tritium luminescent materials are also made up of several components: 1) From the tritium (which is gaseous in a pure, unbound state) and 2) the actual zinc sulfide luminescent material, which is excited by the ionizing beta radiation of the tritium . Tritium is, so to speak, the battery / energy source and the actual "lamp" is the zinc sulfide. Both substances are 3) enclosed in a polymer layer. The diffusion process of the gaseous tritium through the polymer, which depends on temperature, vibrations, water vapor, and possibly also on external (sunlight) light, is also essential for the luminescent service life.

How safe storage affects the tritium diffusion process compared to normal carrying conditions could be the subject of a doctoral thesis. In my opinion, it is not easily predictable.

The fact is: When the tritium as a "battery", i.e. source of ionizing radiation, is used up, zinc sulfide remains in a polymer, which is no longer stimulated and therefore ages. And aged zinc sulfide mixed with organic polymer substances is sure to have many shades. Hence the different shades of yellow.

Greetings from
Weevils

The source for those who want to know exactly:
Source: Uhren Magazin, 11/1995, p.146 or
http://www.info-uhren.de/technik/leucht/uhrenleuchtfarben4.htm


Abstract:

The stuff the digits are made of

Today the watch industry mostly uses tritium for the production of luminous numbers, dots and hands. Tritium is radioactive. This causes discomfort for many watch enthusiasts and raises questions. We try to answer a few questions.

The manufacture of tritium phosphors takes place in specialist companies. In Switzerland, for example, these are RC Tritec AG in Teufen and MB-MICROTEC in Niederwangen. During production and use, strict safety requirements must be met, which are set by the authorities in both Switzerland and Germany.

It is not entirely correct to speak of luminous tritium numerals and hands. They do not consist of tritium, but of zinc compounds (zinc sulfides or compounds of zinc and silicon oxide), the crystals of which are made to glow by the electrons emitted by the tritium.

Tritium is an isotope * of hydrogen, i.e. an element that, as is well known, only occurs unbound as a gas (only liquid from a temperature of - 260 ° C). Of the hydrogen isotopes, it is the only unstable one, that is, it decays and emits radiation in the process. This radiation is used in a wide variety of applications, of which the use in luminous materials for clocks is only one.

* Isotopes (from the Greek isos - equal and topos - place), chemical elements (basic substances), with the same chemical properties, but which differ in that their atomic nuclei have the same number of protons but different numbers of neutrons.

A so-called polymer, a carbon-hydrogen compound, in which tritium forms the hydrogen component, is used to produce luminous numbers. At RC Tritec AG, a polymer layer is applied to the zinc sulfide crystals. The electron radiation emanating from the tritium makes the crystals glow. The polymerized crystals are delivered to the users as a powder and can then be used for points, numerals and pointers with the help of binders.


What is tritium
Tritium (from the Greek tritos - the third) is the heaviest isotope * of hydrogen, the only one that is radioactive.

What does the T25 imprint on dials mean?
This imprint is compulsory for special watches and refers to the maximum permitted value of the activity in milli-curie (unit of measurement for radioactive radiation).

What are luminous numbers made of?
The material for the production of luminous material is luminous zinc sulfide, which develops the afterglow property after a special heat treatment. It can be aroused again and again, but loses its brightness after a short time. Only when combined with tritium polymer does it get a permanent glow.


Thanks for the well-founded report. :Well:

This post would be worth it to be included in the Classics.

@ weevil: Very informative! :good thank you!

Thank you! :Well:

As an Austrian politician said: "It's all very complicated!" : D

Original by newharry
I stick to the fact that the (air) humidity is a decisive factor here;)

And UV radiation, because tritium yellows differently with plexi than with sapphire glass - imho.

Thank you for the effort! Really a contribution that could be included in the Classic!

Greeting,
Istvan

Thank you Ruesselkaefer for this in-depth tutoring! :good Good:

Can I have another question? Why is this polymer compound built up in such a way that it dissolves or crumbles after a while?

merci
marc

Hello Marc

there is certainly a lot of know-how in the luminous materials. (The luminous masses / luminosity are therefore in almost all cases a good distinguishing feature between fakes and real watches!)

About the polymer I found the following in the reference:

"To date, there are more than 30 different methods for producing tritium-activated luminous colors. Stability, luminous efficiency per unit of activity and, above all, the radiation-hygienic parameters with regard to the chemical form of the tritium compound used vary greatly from method to method. The company Radium-Chemie In more than 12 years of research, has developed a highly stable, radically hygienic and technically balanced form of the tritium compound.
The active tritium carrier is a combined, highly cross-linked copolymer based on polystyrene with a very high specific activity, which, when mixed with suitable phosphors (e.g. zinc sulfide), achieves a maximum light output of 0.15 mcd / mCi ".

So: The yellow colors come from the aged zinc sulfide, which is no longer stimulated to shine due to the tritium that is no longer present. I have two assumptions about the fragility of the carrier substance (which I have often noticed disadvantageous in vintage watches). In any case, a degradation process of the polymer must be causally responsible, since the polymer is the actual carrier substance (for the zinc sulfide and the tritium, both of which are only added in comparatively low concentrations):

1) The polystyrene polymer is also oxidized, i.e. attacked, under the influence of long-term ionizing (beta) radiation from the enclosed or bound tritium. The mechanical strength is correspondingly lower and the polymer carrier then gradually crumbles due to external vibrations.

and or

2) As an organic substance, polystyrene is completely biodegradable, favored by oxygen, moisture and external light. The oxygen permeability of the old Plexiglas (compared to sapphire) would also play a role here.

But I suspect that it is a combination of 1) and 2).

Overall, the new SL luminous materials are much more stable in the long term, especially since they are based on a completely different "luminous mechanism" without radioactive or ionizing radiation. SL consists "only" of the phosphorescent pigment with a binder (adhesive). This mixture is more "robust" and not exposed to radiation.

Many greetings from
Dr. rer.nat. Weevils
:]

Now this thread has to slowly get into the classics!
Is really very interesting: good:

The doctor rer. nat. has just given his approval speech in the forum and is officially named Prof. h.c.r.l.x. appointed !!!

Joking aside!

Now we finally know what is going on on our sulphide-yellow dials, and what is then pouring into the factory!

At this point, a deep bow and a heartfelt thank you for the informative answer and above all for all the effort involved!

Greetings to the fellow Swabians!

marc

Thank you weevils, great contribution!

Greeting,
Istvan

Perfect! Thanks and off to the Classics!

top contributions,
off to the classics.
Greeting
Chris

Thank you for the flowers !
I'm happy when, as a complete beginner, I was able to contribute something new
:cool:

At least the luminous number theme reminds me of my good old student days ...

... and at times when an "orange hand" must have been much cheaper than it is today.
:O

Kind regards from
Weevils

now everything is finally clear: rolleyes:

Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2021 Adduco Digital e.K. and vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.